K.

So to sum up what you’ve said:

It’s better to have Republicans in office because that makes people want revolution. So you’re fine with what’s happening now with Trump and ICE murdering people and rights being stripped away and tech bros trying to take everything over, because that’ll make people want a revolution more, so the sacrifices of minorities are necessary. Even though you aren’t an accelerationist.

Communists don’t win elections but that’s somehow ok. If you don’t vote for them and vote for a Democrat then you’re in favor of genocide. Even though that is good when Republicans are in charge because that makes people want revolution more.

The system is terrible and needs to be torn down, but Democrats are so strong and competent that the system won’t get torn down if they are in charge. But voting for people who don’t win will somehow change that. Also Democrats suck and are weak and shitty.

You don’t have proof that refusing to vote has done anything productive in the US, something I specifically asked for. Even though that’s not what you’re advocating for, which is apparently to buy into the system and vote for communists. Even though they don’t win and you don’t want the system to exist and voting for people in the system means you’re pro genocide. You’ve got some historical evidence of having a different election in a different country with a different system doing something, but it doesn’t matter that it’s a completely different situation because you like Lenin.

So yeah, while you’re happy about what’s going on with the world, with Trump and Gaza and ICE and everything because it’ll get the people inspired for revolution that’ll happen Any Day Now, I’m not exactly cool with it and with people being thrown onto the grinder. I think the system could be dismantled even with Democrats in charge. I’ve made my stance pretty clear at this point about Democrats and my opinion of them, and what I think the course of action is.

So I’m going to give you some parting advice.

You want a revolution? You have to win the hearts of the people. You have to get them to want to join you. You have to make them feel welcomed. You have to make them feel heard. You have to make them feel empowered.

The way you and these other people commenting have been acting? People being insulting or saying that someone’s in favor of genocide? Not listening to people and their strategies or reasoning? Being willing to throw minorities under the bus on an assumption?

That’s not it fam. You’re giving your revolution a bad name.

You’re falling into one of the weak spots of the left, and that’s that you want only perfect allies. Only people who operate like you want. The Right doesn’t care that much as long as it’s someone “owning the libs”, they will use or take anyone (till they aren’t useful and throw them under the bus).

So maybe ease up a bit, maybe try to convince people of your position instead of condemning anyone who’s not as left as you, and if you want to try to convince people your way is best, get your story straight and maybe don’t go in attacking people who have a slightly different strategy than you. I’m on your side and want a worker’s revolution and you’ve been acting like I eat infants. That’s not exactly helping.

Oh and don’t keep trying to get the last word, I said I was done a few comments ago.

Man that’s some high level mental gymnastics you have to pull off to think that Republicans are better for a communist revolution, better for minorities and better for foreign people.

Plus you said voting for communists doesn’t really do anything.

I’m not convinced you’re doing the right thing, and definitely not convinced to follow suit. You’ve given no evidence to your position whatsoever.

I think you’re lost in the sauce of what I was saying. I’m not for accelerationism.

You still haven’t provided evidence that withholding votes works in this country. You also said that the communist candidates never win, so I don’t see what the point is there.

None of what you’ve said has convinced me that they are viable strategies for my immediate goal, which is to keep the GOP out of power.

Like I said, I haven’t seen evidence for not voting being useful in this country at all, and you’re the one saying Republicans are good for getting people on board with socialism.

Unless you can link me a source for this strategy working here, I think we’re done here

Communist parties participating in elections, bringing popular policy to the forefront, and radicalizing the working classes? That absolutely works and is absolutely useful.

I have yet to see evidence of that in this country, like, ever at all.

You want to dismantle the system, I get that, but while the system is here I’m going to do functional harm reduction while trying to dismantle it.

That’s a long way of saying voting for communists doesn’t work.

So you’d throw trans, black and Hispanic people under the bus so working people can realize that electoralism is a dead end by letting Republicans win, even though everyone already feels that way. Cool.

I think there’s more effective tactics that will get people to be motivated for voter reform.

Eh maybe. You haven’t made a compelling argument to not vote for Democrats then. You even said the communist parties don’t win. So until there’s systematic election reform that changes things to ranked choice and not winner takes all, get rid of gerrymandering and ask the other bullshit that keeps things locked into two parties, as much as I don’t like them or agree with them, Democrats are the only party that stands a chance for winning against Republicans in an election.

And, going to repeat myself since people don’t seem to get it, and I want to be explicitly clear, I don’t agree with Democrats, condone them, or even want them in office. My voting for them isn’t because I love capitalism and genocide. I just know that whatever Democrats are, Republicans are worse. I know too many minorites that are directly attacked by Republican policies to let them take office.

So saying “there should be a revolution” means nothing in the moment because there isn’t a revolution happening. Saying “they are both capitalists so they are both bad” means nothing because yes, they are both bad, but one is less bad. Saying “we should be doing things outside of voting” means nothing because we’re not talking about what to do outside of voting, we’re talking about who to vote for.

Once I see a socialist or Communist run outside of the Democratic party that has a chance of winning anything, I’ll vote for them. Once there’s a real revolution happening I’ll be in the streets. But here and now, those things don’t exist yet, so I’m going to work with what I’ve got.

You have not made a compelling argument to stop voting.

Oh cool so that’s uh, happening right now? Somehow I’m missing the news report of the glorious revolution?

Oh wait it’s not and the regime is still there?

Damn while it’s still around and like, voting is still happening, maybe I should use the ability to vote to reduce harm to minorities while we get that revolution going.

That’s not withholding a vote. That’s a revolution. There’s a difference.

Show me any time where people withholding their votes did anything productive with long term change and I’ll change my mind.

I’ve been volunteering with a group that’s been trying to unite Hispanic and non Hispanic people through education involving worker history, and using those presentations as ways to learn how to organize so we can meet the needs of the community. We’ve been doing ICE spotting, giving rides to people so they are safe traveling for work or school, getting legal assistance for people who need it and food/financial assistance to people who are hiding because they are being targeted by ICE.

So, you know, that whole localized community building and support people say is fundamental for long term actionable change.

What are you doing, besides saying people who vote love genocide?

Wtf are you even on about?

They really don’t

I don’t know where you live, but here we don’t have the privilege of voting for things. Only against. In an ideal situation we would vote for the things we want, but that’s not reality here.

Ok Jimmy, that’s a neato idea, but it doesn’t work.

That’s like just letting anyone steer your car.

And the people in charge would rather have less people vote, so you’re not withholding anything, you’re just playing into their hands.

Don’t be fooled into thinking not voting is somehow going to do something, Jimmy, that’s a known route to failure.

Ok, so until this glorious revolution happens, while it’s getting started, I’m still going to vote, and I’m going to vote against the Republicans until I’m presented with a better option. I’m going to do what I can inside and outside of the system, and I’m not going to throw away agency I’ve got for a hypothetical revolution.

Not voting doesn’t magically make the whole system fall apart, so yeah, it’s still going to run parallel as long as that’s true.

Offer a better solution then

I was going to illustrate the point of voting for the lesser evil while working towards the greater good, but that got shot down so nevermind I guess.