I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?
I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.
First of all, that’s not an apology. “Sorry I lied about your position you’re just saying it so badly I lept to a conclusion so it’s really your fault” isn’t an apology, it’s a backhanded accusation.
And you’re not going to quote my response?
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.
I dared to say that we’ve talked before and that you didn’t convince me, so you assume my position is “don’t organize only vote?”
What kind of binary thinking is that? “Oh hey this guy said voting isn’t entirely useless so he must hate the idea of doing anything else”
And you said I’m the one who is making straw men?!
We’ve talked before, and even in this conversation, I said that people need to organize, start a revolution, help out locally, yada yada, you know, the same thing you want and advocate for… As well as take some time out of their afternoon to do the minimal effort for damage control via voting.
If you think the revolution is so weak that doing that will end it, then you don’t believe in the revolution as much as I do.
So why don’t I think your comment is true?
Because voting, right now, is the primary political outlet people have. It’s the one people have access to and just about everyone can do. Secondarily you have people running for office, but that gets less accessible the higher up the chain you go for average people. The way the system is, as it is now, voting is the primary political outlet.
Will voting get us socialism? Probably not, there’s a lot of old guard in there. Hypothetically if everyone voted in every socialist they could rewrite the rules but that’s unlikely to happen.
But we already talked about getting people in office who will do less harm in the interim, people who would not stand in the way of a socialist revolution, or sympathetic to it. As I recall that was either not good enough or you thought that would make people just drop out of the revolution.
But whatever, you don’t want to listen and are going to make up what my position is? Have fun arguing with yourself, don’t get too much straw in your knuckles. I’m sure you’ll get loads of people to join up with you that way.
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.
What “more immediate political concerns” are not fought better on the ground?
Why only fight on one front when you could fight on all fronts? You can vote and do other things, you know.
I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?
I have never, once, at all, ever held that position, nor have I said such a thing. I have always been a proponent of organizing and voting.
Don’t you dare put those words in my mouth.
Can you please explain what these “more immediate political concerns” are that voting is more important for than organizing?
I think I’d rather have an apology first if I’m going to do you any favors. You just spat out a lie about me and you’re going to brush it off?
I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.
First of all, that’s not an apology. “Sorry I lied about your position you’re just saying it so badly I lept to a conclusion so it’s really your fault” isn’t an apology, it’s a backhanded accusation.
And you’re not going to quote my response?
I dared to say that we’ve talked before and that you didn’t convince me, so you assume my position is “don’t organize only vote?”
What kind of binary thinking is that? “Oh hey this guy said voting isn’t entirely useless so he must hate the idea of doing anything else”
And you said I’m the one who is making straw men?!
We’ve talked before, and even in this conversation, I said that people need to organize, start a revolution, help out locally, yada yada, you know, the same thing you want and advocate for… As well as take some time out of their afternoon to do the minimal effort for damage control via voting.
If you think the revolution is so weak that doing that will end it, then you don’t believe in the revolution as much as I do.
So why don’t I think your comment is true?
Because voting, right now, is the primary political outlet people have. It’s the one people have access to and just about everyone can do. Secondarily you have people running for office, but that gets less accessible the higher up the chain you go for average people. The way the system is, as it is now, voting is the primary political outlet.
Will voting get us socialism? Probably not, there’s a lot of old guard in there. Hypothetically if everyone voted in every socialist they could rewrite the rules but that’s unlikely to happen.
But we already talked about getting people in office who will do less harm in the interim, people who would not stand in the way of a socialist revolution, or sympathetic to it. As I recall that was either not good enough or you thought that would make people just drop out of the revolution.
But whatever, you don’t want to listen and are going to make up what my position is? Have fun arguing with yourself, don’t get too much straw in your knuckles. I’m sure you’ll get loads of people to join up with you that way.