That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
Revolution: Takr away window dressing like culture, and the crushing majority of earth’s population share our class interest. Most humans want to live in a society focused on taking care of humans, and many revolutions have succeeded or even flourished despite full-spectrum seige from the capitalist bloc.
Reform: reform has been tried for a hundred fifty years and all there is to show for it is two and a half world wars, many capitalist genocides, and an entrenched neo-aristocracy of openly fascist, pedophile death cultists who have kicked off a mass extinction and are driving us towards nuclear apocalypse.
Every communist revolution that survived the 20th century is now either absolutely thriving or at least weathering extreme US seige, and the ones that weathered their seiges already have begun to thrive (see the DPRK). China is currenty the best hope for the survival of any large scale human civilization.
Meanwhile, every capitalist society where people chose reform has backslid or been backsliding into fascism. And at this point, we are out of time to keep trying gentle .methods. Capitalism is the cancer killing the only extraordinary gem of a planet where plants grow and creatures roam, and it’s in part thanks to the history of denial of how bad it is, the continual, suicidal insistence on taking half measures in the face of overwhelming warning that has allowed it to metastasize to such a horrifying degree that our only options now are the risky, painful surgery of revolution or certain death.
Nobody assumes revolution will be smooth and painless, what’s important is that it’s necessary for a better world. We have to work as hard as we can to make sure it works out as smoothly as possible.
People laughed, saying a vote for Kamala was pointless, and a vote for genocide, but everyone has suffered under this atrocity of an administration. I don’t know that Kamala would have called Marxists terrorists.
I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?
I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
I don’t know why anyone assumes that revolution will get them what they want. There are so many more ways for things to go wrong than right.
Okay, let’s look at the results to far:
Revolution: Takr away window dressing like culture, and the crushing majority of earth’s population share our class interest. Most humans want to live in a society focused on taking care of humans, and many revolutions have succeeded or even flourished despite full-spectrum seige from the capitalist bloc.
Reform: reform has been tried for a hundred fifty years and all there is to show for it is two and a half world wars, many capitalist genocides, and an entrenched neo-aristocracy of openly fascist, pedophile death cultists who have kicked off a mass extinction and are driving us towards nuclear apocalypse.
Every communist revolution that survived the 20th century is now either absolutely thriving or at least weathering extreme US seige, and the ones that weathered their seiges already have begun to thrive (see the DPRK). China is currenty the best hope for the survival of any large scale human civilization.
Meanwhile, every capitalist society where people chose reform has backslid or been backsliding into fascism. And at this point, we are out of time to keep trying gentle .methods. Capitalism is the cancer killing the only extraordinary gem of a planet where plants grow and creatures roam, and it’s in part thanks to the history of denial of how bad it is, the continual, suicidal insistence on taking half measures in the face of overwhelming warning that has allowed it to metastasize to such a horrifying degree that our only options now are the risky, painful surgery of revolution or certain death.
Nobody assumes revolution will be smooth and painless, what’s important is that it’s necessary for a better world. We have to work as hard as we can to make sure it works out as smoothly as possible.
What are some examples of it going right?
USSR, PRC, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, GDR, Yugoslavia, etc.
The USSR, Cuba, DPRK, China, Vietnam as some examples.
People laughed, saying a vote for Kamala was pointless, and a vote for genocide, but everyone has suffered under this atrocity of an administration. I don’t know that Kamala would have called Marxists terrorists.
The DNC are complicit in the present state repression against left-wing groups, and the genocide in Palestine has continued.
You’re absolutely not wrong.
We’ve had this argument before and you haven’t convinced me this is true, especially with more immediate political concerns.
I’ve also talked with people who literally are against voting so your statement does not speak for everyone.
What “more immediate political concerns” are not fought better on the ground?
Why only fight on one front when you could fight on all fronts? You can vote and do other things, you know.
I have never said that you aren’t allowed to vote, more that voting is far less important than organizing. You are disparaging organizing in favor of voting on the grounds of voting being better, my question is which issue is voting better for?
I have never, once, at all, ever held that position, nor have I said such a thing. I have always been a proponent of organizing and voting.
Don’t you dare put those words in my mouth.
Can you please explain what these “more immediate political concerns” are that voting is more important for than organizing?
I think I’d rather have an apology first if I’m going to do you any favors. You just spat out a lie about me and you’re going to brush it off?
I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.